Bob  0:00  
It's time for conversations with Kimm and WCSR. We're talking with Attorney Kimm Burger, at the KB Law Office of Hillsdale, and Kimm spends a lot of time in court, obviously, because she's a lawyer, but Kimm, thankfully, in the nearly 60 years I've been on this planet, I've only had to be in court once. And I treated it like, "Okay, this is very important," even though, in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a murder case or anything like that. But I need to be on my best behavior. And I need to look nice, and I need to be polite, and I need to be all of that kind of stuff, because I don't want the judge to rule against me. So there are simple, common-sense rules, I would think about appearing in court, isn't there?

Kimm  0:41  
There is, but as our society, or we know, in society, people lack common sense. So, you know, the basics are when you're going into court, it's, you know, it's not a suit or tie. You don't have to. You're not the lawyer, but to look nice, you know, you're not wearing tube tops, you're not wearing tank tops with the whole sides are cut out.

Bob  1:01  
Oh, me in a tube top would be awful. I think the judge would throw me in jail just for that.

Kimm  1:05  
Oh, come on. Bob. You can repeat that summer body. So yeah, you know, a t-shirt that looks nice, not with, you know, the finger being flown on the front, or, you know, it just looks nice, looks presentable, no flip flops, wear a pair of jeans, that just looks nice, you know, because it's how you present yourself.

Bob  1:27  
No, I would assume that this is for like all cases right now, just like if you were in front of the judge for a criminal case, or maybe a divorce, or maybe some sort of other type of hearing, maybe a parental hearing, or something like that, that we've talked about in the past, you want to look nice.

Kimm  1:39  
That's correct. When I went through a custody case I had, and it was in South Carolina, so a little different attitude, my lawyer said, you're going to look like you're going to church, so that way you look presentable. And that's not necessarily the attitude now, but it still look nice, you know, look presentable.

Bob  1:56  
Well, especially in a custody case, I would think that you would want to look nice in front of the judge who's going to say, you know, determine whether or not you get either your kids or you get visitation rights. You don't want to look like a slob. And then the judge goes, "I don't know if the kids want to spend time with you."

Kimm  2:10  
And that could be its appearance. I mean, you are being judged by the way you look, and that shouldn't be, but it's the same no matter where you go. I'm going to look at somebody and think, oh my gosh, you know, but that doesn't make the person a bad person. It's just perception.

Bob  2:25  
Now, speaking of perception, we're in the age of zoom since the COVID pandemic, so people are maybe in court, on their computers or in court on their phones. Same rules apply, correct?

Kimm  2:37  
That is correct. You're still in court. I mean, we've had people that are sitting in their cars, to do zoom, which is perfectly fine. Some people are at work and can't take the time off. And so they can get that little half-hour timeframe. But take your hat off, take your sunglasses off, you're not smoking in your car with the video on, you're not talking to the person next to you, and if there's somebody in the car with you, shut them up. You know, it's still professional. You know, if you're gonna get up to go someplace while you're waiting, turn your video off, turn your sound off. We've had people, not my clients, but a lady who got up, took her phone with her, went into the bathroom, went to the bathroom, all while the video was on and the sound was on. And then we watched and we're all like, "Oh, my gosh, what are you doing?" I mean, think about what you're doing.

Bob  3:21  
And also think about what you're saying. Now, you and I have talked about this in a couple of different programs, the old "keep your mouth shut." And that's the same when you're in court as well, not just in front of a police officer. But in front of the judge, You know, you don't want to be out there calling the judge names or calling the other side names. You don't want to do that.

Kimm  3:42  
No, and most judges will kind of give you a little leeway on what you're doing. But if you continually interrupt your continuingly badgering, you just won't shut up. The judge is gonna, you know, slap your hand, and the judge could, if you get too bad, send you to jail, say you know, I'm finding you in contempt. You've got two days or $100 fine, you know, just be quiet.

Bob  4:06  
So take me then through a couple of the steps when we get into the courtroom. You know that my case is going to go in front of the judge. Obviously, you're going to sit down with me beforehand and just tell me everything you just told me. But are there certain procedures, certain steps that once you get into the courtroom, you have to follow?

Kimm  4:24  
Yes, for the most part, your case is not likely to be the only case on for that time period. You know, you might go in for a 10 o'clock hearing and there might be six or seven other cases that are scheduled at that same time. So you're just gonna sit, you're gonna wait until your case is called once your case is called. You approach the desk or by zoom, however that is, and then your attorneys will make the arguments, saying this is why I think the judge should do something, and then the other attorney, this is why I think you should do it my way. Or the two parties can argue, you know, that same way. And then, once you're done talking That means you're done. Then it's the judges' turn to decide if there's any more questions or make that ruling. And then after that, you're out.

Bob  5:09  
But people are people. So I can picture that you're sitting there and the judge makes a ruling that is not in your favor. Does it help for you to all of a sudden go, "Wait a second!" or "Hey, that's not right!" Or "no!" What about, you know, just speaking up? Or, again? Should I just keep my mouth shut?

Kimm  5:28  
You keep your mouth shut. Normally, if there's something that comes up, like I go first, that person goes second. And there's something in that that the person that goes second set, I can kind of redirect if I need to. There's a lot of times where there are clients sitting next to me, and I have to like, touch them on the arm. Okay, it's okay. It's okay. You know, I've actually told clients, "You need to be quiet." You know, you need to stop talking.

Bob  5:52  
So just like we see on TV, where normally a murder case, but on television, but anyway, where the defense attorney or whoever says, I'm not going to put you on the stand, because it'll make it worse instead of better.

Kimm  6:06  
That is correct. Sometimes you can't control yourself. And especially in a heated situation like that, is you're trying to get so much information out. And you want to argue your point? And when you're testifying, that's not what it's for. It's to give facts. And so some people are not good at that. So it's better just to keep your mouth closed and let other people do the talking for you.

Bob  6:29  
And that would also include after the judge gavels. And then your case is done. Because I have heard tell of different times where the judge has ruled. One person was not happy. So after your case was technically done and you get up to leave the courtroom, then all heck breaks loose with screaming and yelling and shouting and name-calling. You're still in the courtroom. You can't do that.

Kimm  6:50  
That's correct. I know personally, I've stepped in at least twice. In the time that I've had, I've been doing this between a couple of parties and trying to break it up because they just need to stop. Sometimes it's in the courtroom. Sometimes it's out in the waiting area. So you just kind of need to step aside and say, you know, stop. I even stepped in between a police officer and a defendant once because they were arguing.

Bob  7:14  
Because your case, even though it's done for the day, you're done for that right now, the judge is still there, and he can go, "Oh, wait a second." We're not quite done yet because you're doing something stupid. And then he can rule on the stupidity?

Kimm  7:25  
Yes, he can call you back and say "Come back in front of me and I'm gonna find you in contempt for what you just did." Or he's gonna chastise you and you're gonna feel like a little kid getting in trouble with your parents.

Bob  7:36  
It's like when your mom and dad scold you, you go mumbling away, and all of a sudden they say, "What did you say?"

Kimm  7:42  
Yes. Thank you, sir. I will. I will just leave now. So that is the answer.

Bob  7:47  
So if you're getting ready to go in court, and again, it doesn't matter if it's for like a property dispute. You know, a child custody hearing, murder, or just something more simple. Check with a lawyer, check with Kimm, and make sure you do the proper steps so you have a better chance of getting the ruling in your favor. That is correct. And how do people get in touch with Kim Berger if they'd like to have you represent them in front of the judge?

Kimm  8:12  
You can call at 517-797-6021 or you can visit the website at www.kburgerlaw.com.

Bob  8:18  
And of course you can always visit with Kimm monthly right here on radio. Hillsdale, WCSR