Bob  0:00  
It's our pleasure to talk with Kimm Burger from the KB Law Office here in Hillsdale and today, we're going to talk about love, love, love, love. You and him and he and you. You're all in love and you can't fathom spending another moment apart from each other. And you just love him and he loves you and love, love, love, and then you decide to take it to the next level. And just before you say those magic words, you hear those magic words. Would you mind signing a prenup? Kim, let's talk about Prenuptial agreements. First of all, what exactly is a prenup? 

Kimm  0:37  
A prenup is basically a contract that each party enters into to divide their assets or debts. Figure out if there's going to be a divorce in the future that this is how we're going to divide the assets and debts that the state cannot tell me what you get what I get. So a lot of it is just you keep what you have I keep with what I have, no matter how this works during the marriage. 

Bob  0:59  
So first things first, you have to get married in order to have a prenup, right? This is not just a well, we've lived together for 20 years where common law or whatever they call it, you actually have to be man and wife?

Kimm  1:11  
Correct. Michigan does not identify as a common law marriage state. So you're just dating until that date that you say I do. 

Bob  1:18  
And if you sign do you sign the prenup before you get married? Or do you sign the prenup after you get married? 

Kimm  1:25  
You can do it either way. There's the prenuptial, which means before you get married, and then there's the ante nuptial, which means once you get married, so which still regulate the same thing. 

Bob  1:36  
Okay, so let's talk about then what it regulates. You said that you know, what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours. And if we do end up getting a divorce, I keep mine you keep yours. That's great for what you're bringing into the marriage. But what about all the stuff that you accumulate while you're married, what all happens to that in the eyes of a prenuptial agreement? 

Kimm  1:56  
If you have a prenup, then what happens is that's already regulated. So when I come in, let's say you and I are going to get married. I, most of the time or a large portion of the time, this is second marriages for a lot of people because, you know, the last statistic I saw was about 46% of divorces, or marriages end in divorce. So a lot of times we're having older, or second marriage, older people or second marriages for for everybody. So they're already coming into the marriage with, you know, large, larger assets, like my retirement as a big one, you know, I already have a house, I already have all of this. And then he and she may have some of the same issues, and then trying to combine those but I can say, you know, I came into this house, this marriage with my house, and even though we are paying for it, you know, the mortgage or something through the marriage, it remains mine. I don't care what money that we've made during the marriage. If we separate and divorce, that as mine, you get nothing from it. 

Bob  2:56  
Can't you do the same thing with the will? Can't you, you know, say, well, we don't need a prenup, because in my will, you know, I'm stating that this is my house. And you know, after my passing, this is what I want to happen with it?

Kimm  3:09  
No, because the spouse still has the right to some of your some of your assets. And it depends on when this occurs, you can make a will during the your marriage that says I want my house to go to x person. However, that spouse does have a marital interest in that house now, so you can't just say he or she gets nothing. So it's better to take care of it up front if you want to keep that. 

Bob  3:41  
So then speaking of marital interest in going kind of circling back to my original question, then if say we buy a cabin up north after we get married and it's in our names. Can I have it though in the prenup that it's my cabin? Or it's your cabin? How does how does stuff like that work? Like I say after you get married or after you've already signed a prenup?

Kimm  4:02  
Prenups tend to protect what you already own. So you can always agree that you're going to have a joint asset. So you have your house already, you're going to get a vacation house up north somewhere. So the parties say Okay, I'm gonna put my money I'm gonna put your money and we're all going to go together and we make that a joint asset now, so that now becomes outside of that prenup unless there's something specific in there that now becomes marital in it at the divorce that is subject to a division. 

Bob  4:33  
Can the spouse, can the kids contest a prenup? Is this something that is contestable? Or is this something that is locked in stone that once you sign it, mine is this yours is that you can argue? 

Kimm  4:48  
No. It can always contest it. I mean, you as an example look at Kelly Clarkson. There was a prenup, pretty set and they're still contesting what's his and hers so they can name anything. It's like, well, you frauded me, you made me do this, or you know, you didn't disclose this, you didn't disclose that. So there can be arguments made of why that prenup shouldn't be upheld, or certain areas of it shouldn't be upheld. 

Bob  5:14  
You really need to get technical than with a prenuptial agreement, I would imagine you just didn't stay, you know, listing everything that you have and getting right down I guess to the letter. 

Kimm  5:22  
Correct. A lot of it, we ensure that you are disclosing everything ahead of time. So with when I do it is you need to give me copies of all your bills, all your bank statements, all of this, this and this. That way I can put in this is exactly what was disclosed prior to the marriage, these are your retirement, these are your assets. And that way both parties look at it and say, Okay, I know I understand and where we go from there. So that way we make sure that there are disclosures, they can't go back and say, Well, you didn't tell me those. 

Bob  5:51  
Who should get a prenup? Should you be going you know, because honestly, when you hear mostly about prenups, you just mentioned Kelly Clarkson, it's the wealthy, it's movie stars, it's politicians. It's people like that, that have a lot of assets. Should the average person that's going on their second or third marriage? Should they get a prenup? Or does it all depends on how much stuff you have? 

Kimm  6:13  
I would get everybody I mean, you even have a newlywed, you have these parties that are you know, starting out, you know, young 20s where they're working, he or she already has a job. They're building their retirement. So when you do that prenup, you say you keep your hands off my retirement and a lot of times that may be what they are. Otherwise you're dividing this retirement after your marriage. So you could have you know, earn $200,000 in your retirement, you know, out of your own work, and the other spouse is entitled to that where if you had a prenup, that spouse wouldn't be entitled to any of it. 

Bob  6:46  
So does the prenup become null and void in case of death? I mean, if you're if you're happily married 50 years and then she dies or I die? Does the prenup become null and void? 

Kimm  6:59  
That can be addressed in the prenup. If so, what happens with those because the prenup then is the you know how you divide that asset. So you would want to take into consideration what would happen if that event were to occur. 

Bob  7:14  
I wasn't sure if a will then supersedes a prenup after somebody passing or can you have both? 

Kimm  7:20  
Yeah, you can have both it just the language of each document is what's going to prevail. 

Bob  7:26  
Should people I don't want to use the word panic. But if you are in love, and you're getting ready to walk down the aisle and you say, you know we should really get a prenup? Should somebody panic about that? Or is this a legitimate move that protects everybody?

Kimm  7:44  
I think it's legitimate, you know, if you're in love, and everybody's in love when they begin with but you know, who knows. So you're just trying to protect yourself just like in any other way you get car insurance to protect yourself isn't necessarily that you're expecting to get to get in an accident. But what happens if you do so it's kind of the same, In my eyes, it's the same, I would do it. I would tell anybody if they're going to get married, go ahead and do it as well.

Bob  8:09  
Can you get one of the nuptial agreements after you're married? I mean, if you've been married 5, 10 years, and you're like, you know, maybe you ought to get one of these?

Kimm  8:12  
Yes, you can always do it after the marriage. And again, those are different discussions to have is how to proceed from there.

Bob  8:23  
And I would imagine that the first discussion would be with a qualified attorney like yourself?

Kimm  8:28  
Yes. I mean, you can talk obviously, the parties can talk and say, Hey, we need to get this going. But you really need to talk to an attorney to do something like this.

Bob  8:39  
So how does one get a hold of Kimm Burger KB Law Office if they'd like to learn more about prenuptial agreements?

Kimm  8:44  
You can call us at 517-797-6021 or you can email at kimm@kburgerlaw.com.

Bob  8:54  
We appreciate Kimm Burger joining us on Conversations with Kimn this month. Right here on WCSR